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S3, E51 Jaaza: A Magnificent Millennial

Georgia native Jaaza Clarke’s defining moment of adulthood was admitting she had chosen a field that wasn’t really the best fit for her. On this episode, she shares how she learned to regroup and reassess when she realized that her multiple interests resulted in her putting her most important passion on the back burner. She talks about listening to others’ voices and allowing them too much influence over her decisions. As a well-traveled woman who has lived and formed support networks outside of American borders, Jaaza also shares how many Black women she’s encountered who are foregoing motherhood because it’s a responsibility that would curtail their ability to live by the dictates of their own whims. She’s come to question the expectation that raising children should be something she plans to do simply because she is a woman. While most of her friends are mothers, Jaaza maintains the role has never really interested her. With the troubling condition of the current world and the sacrifices associated with motherhood, being childless strikes her as a much better option. Jaaza is honest about her struggle to nail down what is essential in her journey to freedom. She knows that peace and stability are paramount. However, she has a dormant desire to retire in Africa. While she knows the continent is not a cure-all for every trauma Black Americans experience in our own country, she does want to experience “what it feels like to see myself reflected everywhere I go. I want to be able to walk outside and see myself as the majority.”

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S3, E47 Danielle: A Magnificent Millennial

When 27-year-old Danielle Taylor was in her teens, she imagined her late 20s would find her securely settled into a dream career and married with one child under her care and another on the way. In this episode, she shares how she came to reconcile her fantasy life with the reality of womanhood. Taking a while to find the right job in the field that was most congruent with her personality and passions wasn’t as simple as she thought it would be. She dated like most young people, but while still in her mid-20s learned that choosing the right partner was even trickier than choosing the right career. As she approaches her 30s, she talks about how grateful she is that she doesn’t have two kids calling her Mommy. Danielle opens up about coming to the decision not to have children at all – even if she does eventually find her ideal partner and they decide to marry. Her time struggling to find herself and her place in the world helped her to see that she really didn’t want to raise children. Danielle cites many reasons why, though she enjoys spending time with kids, she prefers the ones who can be returned. She talks about friends and family sometimes judging her choice simply because it is different than their own. As she reflects on her growth, Danielle ends by saying she seeks to find balance and happiness in her life. “My burning question is always ‘what do I really enjoy doing.’ I need to find out what really brings me joy instead of just what I do because an adult is supposed to do it.”

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S2, E40: Soul Sisters Book Club Discussion

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Soul Sisters Book Club about No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Based in Tennessee, the group discusses how they identified with Keturah’s observations about how marriage is dangled in front of single women like a carrot and the condescension that results when you are a single woman who doesn’t really care about that carrot. Several members share their own stories of not desiring marriage and having their words questioned, their values judged. Because of this, the group discusses in depth how often black women, in particular, aren’t believed. Whether it is about their own condition or even their pain, there is a persistent denial that the black woman herself is telling the truth about her existence. The club also asks Keturah questions about being an atheist and probe her for greater detail about living abroad. One member talks about defending her own nonbelief to a stranger in the grocery store and how this, too, is another aspect of black womanhood that is not believed as one’s truth. There is discussion of how many women around the world don’t know their own worth and Keturah shares anecdotes of women she’s met in her travels who succumb to the message that they are either not enough or too much. The women also probe Keturah about the candor in her essays about living in Rwanda and China. From loneliness to western privilege to still having to navigate white foolishness, Keturah goes into greater depth about what the expat life is like for single, black women abroad. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book’s content with laughter and lightness. “I love that this book gives you the sense that whatever you feel in your heart is okay,” a soul sister says. “And the older I get, the more that is me.”

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S2, E39: Angela Finds Freedom in Options

Leader of the Sistahs in the Story Book Club, Angela Smith goes into greater detail about connections she had to No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Referring to stories from the book club discussion in episodes 37 and 38, Angela explains how the female members of her family accosted her at a cookout because she was approaching her 40s and didn’t have children. She shares why she believes even her closest friends have questioned her choice to remain childfree: they never considered any other option for themselves and her presence shows them that there were many. Angela also retells the story of choosing to end a long-term relationship instead of following her boyfriend of 14 years across the country. She reflects on how shocked her boyfriend was when she said she had no interest in uprooting her life and moving to another state. This leads into a discussion about the outdated mindset that a woman’s greatest desire is to be chosen by a good man. Angela notes that it has only been a few decades since women could not even get a credit card without a husband’s signature. Therefore, she is unsurprised that her former beau assumed she would move away with him so he would continue to choose her. Angela is unbothered by what people assume she should do. A true free black woman, she casually says, “I find freedom in having options. And as long as there are options out there to have, I will keep taking them.”

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S2, E38: Sistahs in the Story Book Club (Part 2)

Continuing the conversation from episode 37, Keturah chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club. The Chicago-based readers share even more personal connections to “No Thanks: Black, Female and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone.” Two of the women share how much they identified with the book’s theme of being content with their lives enough not to uproot them simply because their romantic partner wanted to marry. One member talks about not following her long-term partner across the country when he was offered a job opportunity. Another sistah chimes in with her story of letting her then-fiance know it was not worth it for her to sell her house and uproot her children just to relocate to another state because her future husband had an opportunity there. There is also extensive discussion about how easy it is not to see the shaming that occurs when Black women, particularly, choose themselves over children and husbands. Moderator, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, brings the discussion to a close by getting final thoughts from Keturah and the book club members. Keturah expresses her wish that we allow for a wider array of narratives to be given value in Black and mainstream culture so people don’t have to spend most of their lives trying to find the courage to own their truth. The Sistahs in the Story Book Club expresses their gratitude one last time for the gift of No Thanks. “You say give this book to a 20-year-old college student,” one of the ladies reflects. “But no, I’m not waiting that long. I’m giving it to the 15-year-old girls in the group I mentor so they can know early on it is okay not to want what everyone says they should want.”

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S2, E37: Sistahs in the Story Book Club (Part 1)

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club about No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Based in Illinois, the group of friends wanted to talk about why they identified with certain themes, had questions about others and general thoughts on the book’s importance and relevance. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book’s content with laughter and lightness. One sistah shares her story of her 21-year-old self marrying the father of her child even though her gut was telling her it was a huge mistake. “He was a liar and a cheater and I knew it and still married him anyway. That’s really sad.” Another sistah entertains the group with her story of being cornered at a family cookout and told by the women in her family it was time for her to start using her womb for the reason God had given it to her. “They called my grandma over too and all of a sudden it turned into this whole thing where everyone was dissecting what was wrong with me because I didn’t want kids.” Sprinkled in with anecdotes from Keturah’s own experiences while on book tour and Kimberly’s personal choices that have also caused pushback in her church community and others, The Sistahs in the Story Book Club probe deep into the messages of No Thanks and courageously share their connections to it.

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S2, E31: Keturah Got Some Shit She Need To Say

Popular guest from Season 1, Tracy Adams, returns to talk to Keturah about her new book, No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Having known Keturah as a friend and blogger for a decade, Tracy wanted to learn about why Keturah chose to document some of their personal conversations and topics she’s written about many times on her blog, Yet Another Single Gal, in this new collection of essays. Keturah explains that two years spent in Africa and the death of musical icon, Prince, were pivotal moments that compelled her to commit to sharing her insights about being a woman whose lifestyle choices center her needs and the pushback she and other Black women endure when they make such choices. Keturah talks about how living abroad has impacted the way she looks at patriarchy and whiteness. She explains that many women she has encountered surrender to both. In her book she tells their stories as well as those whose very lives challenge both systems with bold defiance. When asked if readers of No Thanks will be rewarded with a detailed instruction of how to get free, Keturah responds with her trademark authenticity and wit. “I don’t want women to pick up this book because they watched every episode of Iyanla’s Fix My Life and their life is not yet fixed.” Keturah laughs as she asserts: “You don’t need me or Iyanla to fix your life. You already know how to do it. You just may not be talking with yourself enough. But, you already know what does and does not need fixing. You also know why you ain’t fixing it…yet.”

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Bonus: Doreen, the Childfree African, is Back!

On episode 2, Doreen Yomoah shared her insights about being an African woman who has chosen not to have children. She also shared stories of how rejecting motherhood was just one way of rejecting patriarchal expectations that are placed on the shoulders of African women. Returning for a deeper dive into the childfree-by-choice life, she uses this episode to explain why she believes more African women are not vocal about not wanting children. She also further connects the assumption that women are just natural caregivers to socialization by explaining how her day job involves researching these assumptions about gender and what it biologically predetermines. She talks about how most people do not notice the intense pronatalist propaganda in their communities because they see the adulthood = parenthood narrative as just the default. A discussion about Michelle Obama’s wildly successful memoir also sparks an analysis of how attached many cultures are to the expectation that women do the heavy lifting of parenting. “Aside from the stigma of if you are a woman, you must have a child, we need to address the other stigma of if you are a man, you are just supposed to be the breadwinner and taking care of children is not your role,” Doreen says. “Both narratives are different sides of the same coin.”

Doreen has great insights and is always a wonderful guest. If this episode is still not enough for you, check out her blog, The Childfree African and her podcast, We Can’t Keep Quiet.

Ep 7: Ebony Won’t Be Birthing Babies (Yes, Her Husband Knows)

When 35-year-old Ebony Murphy-Root reflects on her childhood and young adulthood, she can not recall a moment when motherhood was a role she desired. What does remain prominent in her mind are memories of her father’s sister who was unmarried with no children. A homeowner with a good job and a full social calendar, Ebony’s aunt was always laughing and off to do something that looked fun and exciting. It left an impression on young Ebony who relished the time she spent with her auntie. In this episode, Ebony challenges the myth that no man will marry a woman who does not want to have his children. She met her husband when she was 26-years-old and they found common ground on wanting a childfree life early into their courtship. Even before meeting Mr. Murphy-Root, Ebony says dating did not present her with anymore challenges than the usual ones for young women. She dated across racial lines and was never one to present herself as someone she was not. As a result, she was not short of gentlemen callers. Ebony also shares her perspective on why black women, particularly, are met with pushback and judgment when they are vocal about having no desire to mother. “In black communities, the belief that a woman’s resources – her time, her energy, her money – are community property is much more pronounced than it is in mainstream culture,” Ebony explains. “So when you say you are opting out of the biggest way to suck up all of a woman’s resources, people definitely will feel a certain type of way. Especially since many believe black women are not even entitled to have choices in the first place.” Ebony remains unbothered by people’s feelings, of course. She knows she is not the first black woman to live a life many believe she has no right to live. Nor will she be the last.

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Ep 2: Doreen Has Freed Herself From African Patriarchy

Creater of the blog, The Childfree African, Doreen Yomoah shares her journey to non-motherhood. At 23, she realized that she did not want what a good Ghanaian girl was supposed to want: children. Though she only spent the first year of her life in Ghana, Doreen was well aware of the cultural pressure African women experienced to give their husbands babies. This pressure did not escape any African woman regardless of where she lived throughout the diaspora. She speaks about creating the blog as a way to connect with other young African women who felt as she did and to bring awareness of the African voice to the Childfree blogosphere – a world that remains overwhelmingly white. Doreen shares anecdotes of aunties and uncles demanding she have babies and potential suitors telling her she had no right to decide she would not have children without first having a husband. She connects these encounters to other patriarchal expectations she flouted when she chose to go back to Ghana as an adult. “I will not concern myself with who African patriarchy believes I should be,” Doreen says. “I will just be me.”

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