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S3, E49 Jackie: A Magnificent Millennial

Born and bred in the Bronx, Jackie Andalcio has taught high school in her hometown for three years. Her insular life as a Black girl raised in the New York City borough most known for its working class communities of color was in stark contrast to the life she discovered in college. On this episode, she talks about how the overwhelming whiteness of her college was one of many things that unsettled her once she became an adult. Jackie shares that in many ways, the role she played as peacekeeper in her family made her anxious and ill-equipped for dealing with the common travails of young adulthood. She had to learn how to advocate for herself in school, at the doctor’s office and eventually at work. An attractive woman of 25, Jackie is also balancing the fine act of making room for love, but not allowing an insincere lover to step over boundaries. She shares how she’s become more conscious of the relationship prototype that Black women are encouraged to seek: suffering and sacrifice until a man realizes you’re worth a relationship. She provides examples in pop culture and in everyday life of this “sassy” Black woman who complains about being treated poorly, but who does nothing about the poor treatment. She is getting better at ending relationships that take that shape as soon as they start. A Christian woman, Jackie also acknowledges the church’s historical allegiance to patriarchal archetypes have often led women of her mother’s generation to believe that this model of wife-as-sufferer is noble. Young Christian women her age, thankfully, reject such conditioning. Because she is committed to family and community, Jackie is beginning to see the need to create a path that is hers alone. “To consider myself free,” she says, “I need to be able to pursue the vision and desires I have for my life over anyone else’s vision or desire for me.”

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S3, E47 Danielle: A Magnificent Millennial

When 27-year-old Danielle Taylor was in her teens, she imagined her late 20s would find her securely settled into a dream career and married with one child under her care and another on the way. In this episode, she shares how she came to reconcile her fantasy life with the reality of womanhood. Taking a while to find the right job in the field that was most congruent with her personality and passions wasn’t as simple as she thought it would be. She dated like most young people, but while still in her mid-20s learned that choosing the right partner was even trickier than choosing the right career. As she approaches her 30s, she talks about how grateful she is that she doesn’t have two kids calling her Mommy. Danielle opens up about coming to the decision not to have children at all – even if she does eventually find her ideal partner and they decide to marry. Her time struggling to find herself and her place in the world helped her to see that she really didn’t want to raise children. Danielle cites many reasons why, though she enjoys spending time with kids, she prefers the ones who can be returned. She talks about friends and family sometimes judging her choice simply because it is different than their own. As she reflects on her growth, Danielle ends by saying she seeks to find balance and happiness in her life. “My burning question is always ‘what do I really enjoy doing.’ I need to find out what really brings me joy instead of just what I do because an adult is supposed to do it.”

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S3, E43 Adanna: A Magnificent Millennial

23-year-old Adanna Perry is fresh out of college and works as an elementary school teacher. She proudly identifies as a Black feminist and worked as an activist for the rights of Black women while in college. On this episode, she shares how difficult she found adjusting to adulthood once she left the community of sisterhood that formed while in her all-girls’ high school and continued as the friends she made there remained in close proximity to each other. A key difficulty Adanna encountered in post-college life was not having as easy access to this sisterhood once adulthood hit and everyone went their separate ways to start their lives. Adanna struggled to figure out how to assert herself at work without reinforcing the “angry black woman” trope she instinctively knew would be impossible to overcome. Adanna also shares how romantic relationships presented challenges as well because she was committed to being her authentic feminist self in every aspect of life. She discovered that the men who were attracted to her assertiveness and commitment to self didn’t support this self-preservation if it disrupted the narrative of how a black woman should conduct herself in a heterosexual relationship. She reminisces about what she learned from watching her mother put her own needs on the back burner as she supported her husband and cared for her children. Adanna commits herself to centering herself always – even when/if she decides to take on a traditional nuclear family. Out of all the lessons Adanna has learned in this year and a half of “grown up life,” the most important is to acknowledge her own self-worth, absent of her ability to please others. “I’ve learned that my value is not based on what I can do for other people or what I can give them,” Adanna says. “I, myself, am valuable just because I am me.”

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S3, E42 Amal: A Magnificent Millennial

30-year-old Amal White is a social worker by trade, but considers herself to be an activist who centers the struggles of Black women in her work. In this episode she talks about why she tells younger millennials that “adulthood is the ghetto.” According to Amal, the womanhood she’s experienced over the last decade has looked nothing like the womanhood she envisioned when she was a teenager. She thought she’d be married by twenty-one and mothering her first child by twenty-three. Amal talks about how messaging from the single women in her family and society in general caused her to think of marriage and motherhood as expectations of adulthood instead of choices one makes when becoming an adult. Amal also shares how easy it is to succumb to the pressure many women feel to shrink themselves for acceptance. “We’re not encouraged to be who we really are,” she says. “And when we are who we are, we’re seen as problematic.” Amal cites examples of ending relationships with good men and needing the freedom of mobility as ways in which she has been made to feel like she wants too much. When asked what she wished she could gift other women in her peer group, she doesn’t hesitate and says, “The courage to be their authentic selves. No one is going to let you be you. You really do have to take it.”

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S2, E40: Soul Sisters Book Club Discussion

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Soul Sisters Book Club about No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Based in Tennessee, the group discusses how they identified with Keturah’s observations about how marriage is dangled in front of single women like a carrot and the condescension that results when you are a single woman who doesn’t really care about that carrot. Several members share their own stories of not desiring marriage and having their words questioned, their values judged. Because of this, the group discusses in depth how often black women, in particular, aren’t believed. Whether it is about their own condition or even their pain, there is a persistent denial that the black woman herself is telling the truth about her existence. The club also asks Keturah questions about being an atheist and probe her for greater detail about living abroad. One member talks about defending her own nonbelief to a stranger in the grocery store and how this, too, is another aspect of black womanhood that is not believed as one’s truth. There is discussion of how many women around the world don’t know their own worth and Keturah shares anecdotes of women she’s met in her travels who succumb to the message that they are either not enough or too much. The women also probe Keturah about the candor in her essays about living in Rwanda and China. From loneliness to western privilege to still having to navigate white foolishness, Keturah goes into greater depth about what the expat life is like for single, black women abroad. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book’s content with laughter and lightness. “I love that this book gives you the sense that whatever you feel in your heart is okay,” a soul sister says. “And the older I get, the more that is me.”

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S2, E38: Sistahs in the Story Book Club (Part 2)

Continuing the conversation from episode 37, Keturah chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club. The Chicago-based readers share even more personal connections to “No Thanks: Black, Female and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone.” Two of the women share how much they identified with the book’s theme of being content with their lives enough not to uproot them simply because their romantic partner wanted to marry. One member talks about not following her long-term partner across the country when he was offered a job opportunity. Another sistah chimes in with her story of letting her then-fiance know it was not worth it for her to sell her house and uproot her children just to relocate to another state because her future husband had an opportunity there. There is also extensive discussion about how easy it is not to see the shaming that occurs when Black women, particularly, choose themselves over children and husbands. Moderator, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, brings the discussion to a close by getting final thoughts from Keturah and the book club members. Keturah expresses her wish that we allow for a wider array of narratives to be given value in Black and mainstream culture so people don’t have to spend most of their lives trying to find the courage to own their truth. The Sistahs in the Story Book Club expresses their gratitude one last time for the gift of No Thanks. “You say give this book to a 20-year-old college student,” one of the ladies reflects. “But no, I’m not waiting that long. I’m giving it to the 15-year-old girls in the group I mentor so they can know early on it is okay not to want what everyone says they should want.”

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S2, E37: Sistahs in the Story Book Club (Part 1)

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club about No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Based in Illinois, the group of friends wanted to talk about why they identified with certain themes, had questions about others and general thoughts on the book’s importance and relevance. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book’s content with laughter and lightness. One sistah shares her story of her 21-year-old self marrying the father of her child even though her gut was telling her it was a huge mistake. “He was a liar and a cheater and I knew it and still married him anyway. That’s really sad.” Another sistah entertains the group with her story of being cornered at a family cookout and told by the women in her family it was time for her to start using her womb for the reason God had given it to her. “They called my grandma over too and all of a sudden it turned into this whole thing where everyone was dissecting what was wrong with me because I didn’t want kids.” Sprinkled in with anecdotes from Keturah’s own experiences while on book tour and Kimberly’s personal choices that have also caused pushback in her church community and others, The Sistahs in the Story Book Club probe deep into the messages of No Thanks and courageously share their connections to it.

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S2, E26: Sister Raie Resists Rigid Relationships

A native of New York City and current resident of New Orleans, Sister Raie is one of those 21st century women whose answer to “Who are you?” is wonderfully layered. An international singer and songwriter, she is an advocate for mental health in the black community and the sexual and romantic exploration of women. An enthusiastic arts educator, she is also the founder of In My Words, a project that mentors girls of color who show a passion for expressing themselves through the arts. In this episode, Sister Raie shares her insights on what it means to be in a romantic relationship that brings her the most peace. She has had conversations with partners about not walking away from a sexual relationship with someone else when she is on the road for long stretches of time because she is unwilling to deny herself intimacy. Because rigid monogamy feels counterintuitive in those situations, Raie is honest about the communication and candor necessary in order to maintain a semi-open relationship that gives her and her partner what they need. She also delves into how many friends she’s talked to over the years who are afraid to act on their sexuality – whether it is trying open relationships or simply pleasuring themselves – and how this timidity is their way of saying, “There is not enough space in my life to fully be me.” A digression into the topic of the sex life of a fictional character on a critically acclaimed television show also leads Sister Raie to challenge people’s reaction to the mythical, oft-demonized “hoe” archetype. Sister Raie also shares one of the reasons why she has been able to embrace her entire sexual self as she’s grown into womanhood. “I have let go of the quest for the perfect body in order to enjoy my sexuality.” Sister Raie used to have a rigid view on how her breasts should lay and how her butt should look. “Young Sister Raie saw her body through the eyes of the lover who was looking at her naked.” she says. “Sister Raie now sees her body as her own. I am just it.”